du_falloutfandomcom-20200216-history
Forum:Summary of Wiki meeting
This is the draft minutes of the meeting. Please place any questions or proposals to add things I've missed to the comment section. Agent c (talk) 21:06, September 25, 2017 (UTC) Starting the meeting The meeting opened with a summary of the video issue, when it was first raised with admins, when it was raised public, and the eventual posting of video. A summary of negotiations and media involvement was also given. We also outlined the four different streams we were looking at to deal with the situation - Ascention (Reaching out to Bethesda to see if any interest in an official Fallout Wiki), May Day (Strikes or other direct action by editors), Unity (Assisting people to transfer to a competing Fallout Wiki with edits and rights recognition), and Exodus (Moving away from the Wikia platform). The Deal The Meeting discussed the deal that C had proposed, and was accepted by Wikia (T/a Fandom), the terms were as follows: * A Moritorium on any Wikia/Fandom made video being added for 6 months * We will create a video policy for articles in line with current article guidelines. This will include appointment of a 3 member “Video Board” to advise on application of the guidelines, and provide post production scrutiny. * After 6 months if Wikia/Fandom can demonstrate a test video which upholds our strictest guidelines the community will be asked to vote on whether allowing Wikia/Fandom to post further video without pre-consent should be permitted. We’ll also debate including use of the Nukapedia Branding. * If pre-consent is not given, these videos may be submitted to the video board for pre-posting approval, in line with the process for community made video that will be created. * In the meantime if our community teams produce a video that meets those guidelines the video board submit it to Wikia/Fandom for inclusion on articles through the platform. * We would recommend to community teams their target list should be the top 10 most visited pages. * If pre-consent is given Wikia/Fandom will advise the Video board where/when they input video, so that they can be reviewed after posting. The Video board may insist on revision, removal pending these revisions, or where a video cannot be revised such that it can meet our guidelines, permanent removal. * Persistent violations of policy will see Wikia’s/Fandom’s permission to post further video (and use of the Nukapedia branding) suspended until such time as the confidence of the community in these videos can be re-established. During questions, C indicated that technical changes to the video platform, such as positioning, size, and auto play were beyond the scope of the offer made. As the Featured Video platform goes across multiple wikis, asking them to redevelop it just for us wouldn't be likely to be considered, whereas the terms offered merely require them to not do something (ie- not post video). We also talked about the advertising that appears, and that videos do appear cross wikis, aiding in cross wiki pollination. A Group - Project "Warner" has been discussing making video, but as long as standards are consistent there is no reason why other groups could not be formed. We suggested that when voting that everyone consider the strengths of the deal, such as that it gives us editorial control, and the weaknesses, that ultimately the community has no way to enforce the deal (it cannot physically stop wikia from posting video in contravention of the deal) and is instead relying on them to keep their word. Before voting on the deal, we looked at the options if the deal was not accepted. Ascention (official wiki with Bethesda) Although attempts were made to reach Bethesda, no response was received, so Ascention was declared to be "dead in the water". May Day (Editor direct action) We discussed May Day options, such as voluntary wiki strike, taking the form of refusal to add new content for a period and only offer reactive moderation and anti-vandalism services. Given the nature of the deal, it was seen that this route was no longer relevant to our current situation. Unity (Working with The Vault) We had hoped that Leon/Garoux Bloodline/Scion of Delphi/Janaschi would be present from the Vault to discuss Unity, but was unable to attend until later. As C had participated in Negotiations for Nukapedia, he explained that an agreement in principle had been made with the Admins of the Vault where all users (with a few minor exceptions) could move to The Vault with their edits and special rights being recognised. This was a request made by us to them, rather than an offer coming from them. This would not require a vote or even collective action - although we don't want to lose anybody, everyone is free to contact Leon to exercise this option should they choose. It was pointed out that The Vault is foremost a wiki, it does not have much of a social side, and has no Discussions solution. Exodus (moving from the Wikia platform) Exodus was demonstrated by Sakaratte, with some information from C. Exodus looked at whether moving to Wikia was possible, and what form this might take if we were to do it. Exodus looked primarily at two options for this: *Partnering with Wikis that left the Wikia network during the "Monaco incident" (For background, a number of around November 2010 chose to "leave" or "Fork" from the wikia network following the removal of the "Monaco" skin to be replaced with a version of the current "Oasis" skin. As this was prior to our Wiki's split, The Vault, as this place still was, did offer Moral support for those who chose to leave, but out of moral support for Ausir, who was at that time a Wikia employee, chose not to do the same for fear that it may hurt him and his career. About a year later the "Vault - Nukapedia" split occurred as Ausir was no longer employed by Wikia at that stage, but at the the new host of The Vault). *Full Independence Contact was made with UESP (Who operate fully independently) and Halopedia.org (Who split from Wikia during the Monaco incident, and have supported other former wikia wikis in doing the same). Although Halopedia showed that it is possible (including an unrequested full wiki pull), and seemed to be happy to do most of the work regarding hosting and advertising, they do tend to limit the number of extensions and we would have less than full control of the back end. In particular, Lua is not enabled there. Although Full Independence would come with costs and extra work, it would give us complete freedom in what we put on the wiki, and what extentions we run. The Wiki Front Page, and Aaron Kimball pages were demonstrated on the Exodus platform, along with the MobileFrontEnd Extension for mobile support. We also indicated we have a second platform within Exodus called "Sandbox" (running on "Grav") which supports straight HTML, for content that may not be appropriate for the wiki. With full control of the server further options would be available, like Radio. It was also pointed out that Wikia run on an aging version of Mediawiki which is no longer supported or developed for, and due to the extras wikia run on top this is unlikely to be upgraded to a newer version of Mediawiki. When security holes have been found in the past, rather than fixing the hole, Wikia have reacted by removal of features, meaning that Exodus would also allow us to do more than the wiki allows us to do today - In particular plans to add mapping and 3D models were either prevented or made unviable by reduction of features by Wikia. For Discussions users, although it could not be demonstrated, a plan was said in place to develop a similar service with comparable (and in some cases superior) features. Concerns were raised that if we did move, we would lose a lot of views, as Wikia would not remove the existing wiki, ability to promote the move would be limited (a notice to a community discussion proposing the move, for about a month, has been accepted in the past, but anything further tends to lead to wikia wide bans). Wikia also do invest a lot in Search Engine Optimisation which would make attracing new editors hard. Concerns were also raised about Wikia's future direction, including the potential withdrawl of the source editor to be replaced with Lucy (This was implemented without notice/consent on The 13 Reasons Why Wiki), and the wisdom of dependence on the wikia platform should business trouble develop or there be some other change in company direction Proposal and vote record It was proposed that the deal with Wikia be accepted, but the Exodus platform should be retained in to allow for further content and features that cannot be delivered on the wikia platform or as part of the main wiki, and to serve as an option should the community ever feel there was a need to move from the Wikia platform. (In this sense Exodus would work not unlike our wiki affiliates, but with closer control by and relations with the core Nukapedia wiki and community). NB - This was NOT a vote to move from the Wikia platform.< No move is planned, and this vote does not create a mandate to move. Any move would only happen If, and only if, the community had voted to do so, and there are no plans to call such a vote at this time. Nb - Yodamort voted Neutral in error, and meant to support 14 in favour, 5 opposing. With Quorum established, and the majority large, the motion was carried. Other Matters Arising We also discussed the following other matters Creation Club Content As the Bureaucrats have had some difficulty reconciling the recent Creation Club Vote, it was put to the floor to attempt to reconcile this. The Attendees were unable to come up with a solution, so it reverted back to the Bureaucrats for consideration. Fallout at 20 It was proposed that a banner be placed, and notable members be asked be asked to write about their first Fallout experience. C to tweet @ MCA. Auditions Nukaturtle (on behalf of Project Warner) wanted it to be known that Auditions for Video narration will be done in the next few weeks, when she has better Internet. Comments and Amendments Unity Was held up at work, and I was unfortunately unable to attend the Discord meeting until a moderate time after everything had become public and more chaotic. I will not be hosting questions on this forum, although I will most certainly answer any questions sent to me personally across my talk-page. With all of that being said, I will be hosting a Q&A both this coming-up Wednesday, and this coming-up Saturday. I will be asking Chad if a special Discord room can be set up for this event, made publicly accessible upon these two dates before being closed down permanently - logs will be kept and redistributed here should they prove to be necessary. Keep in-mind that while I will be providing a brief summary of my purpose in these meetings, I have no intentions of creating a recruitment PSA - I will simply be around to answer questions that may or may not be important in the coming days. Thank you for reading. [[User talk:Janaschi| 寧靜 ]] 21:56, September 25, 2017 (UTC)